Should we tolerate homosexuality, transsexuality and adult incest?

Should we tolerate homosexuality, transsexuality and adult incest?

I have posted a highly controversial and thought provoking topic on an active online forum, and I got quite a lot of interesting replies. I shall post some of the forum replies here, after filtering off some of the irrelevant, religious, repetitive, meaningless and rude posts.

Here’s the first post:

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relax:

Many people are discriminated just because they live a life outside social and religious norm.
Should they be given a chance of sunshine and live the life they choose without threats from moral police and witch hunters?

So far homosexuals and transsexuals are gaining more basic rights but biological sibling marriage is legal only in Sweden.

Tell me your opinion on this issue. Be rational
(don’t hit me. Hit the message, not the messenger)

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This is the result of the opinion poll, after 4 days of discussion:

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Here are some of the selected replies:

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[Live_Autopsy]:

I wouldn’t really group those three together.
They make an odd batch.

Transexuals and Homosexuals should be free to live their lives.
Nothing about them is harmful to themselves, each other or society as a whole.

However, Incest is illegal for a good reason.
It’s proven that incest causes multiple diseases and deformity in offspring.
Look at the British Royal Family.
Centuries of inbreeding have caused severe issues in the physical and mental health department.
King George III for example.

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DarkKing123:

I suppose if those who desire to participate in Incest made legal contracts/vows/what-have-yous making certain that they would not produce, I wouldn’t see a problem with it from a legal standpoint.
However, I personally still feel it to be wrong, but that’s just my opinion.
I’m sure others view my sexual fetishes and how I live my life to be wrong.
People are innately judgemental, as annoying as it can be, it can’t be helped.
What social norms are you referring to? It is really hard to pin point an exact social norm when society varies from where you live. Since when did “religious norms” become the bar standard for society? By religious norms I assume you must mean Anglo-Christian norms because if you went by other “religious norms” such as Buddhism, then homosexuality or transexuality would not be considered deviating. Of course, if you went by Buddhist standards, then Christians and mostly everyone would be considered wayward xD.

Incest is completely different from homosexuality and transexuality. It has been scientifically proven that incest causes a multitude of genetic problems. A previous poster evidenced the British royal family which is a good example. In fact the whole of European royalty has suffered from inbreeding. Remember the bad case of hemophilia in the European royalty’s lineage? Also look at the Amish, inbreeding there have bred birth defects.

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Grand Inquisitor Squid:

How dare you lump incest in with homosexuality and transexuality…?

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Daemon of Skorm:

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Just a side note: I an undecided on incest. I know I should be very liberal minded, but it just doesn’t quite feel right to me yet. I have no idea how I could love a family member that way. However, like the sign says, I will not try to revoke their rights because of my beliefs. I do not condemn them.

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Triste-chan:

Birth Defects caused by incest are really only likely to occur after many generations of incestuous breeding. If you screw your brother, basically, and he gets you preggo, it’s unlikely that your kids will have eleven toes. But if your kids marry each other, and then your grandkids marry each other, your great-grandkids have a much better chance of getting these defects.

But I don’t see a problem with any of these things, although I think people in incestuous relationships should think long and hard before having any children.

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Karismas:

don’t care about homosexuals and transsexuals. although I don’t support them I don’t have anything against them.

and incest is disgusting.

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error[dot]exe:

[Live_Autopsy]:

However, Incest is illegal for a good reason.
It’s proven that incest causes multiple diseases and deformity in offspring.
Look at the British Royal Family.
Centuries of inbreeding have caused severe issues in the physical and mental health department.
King George III for example.

Do we stop people with genetic diseases or with a family history of genetic diseases from getting married?

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Shaviv:

Triste-chan:

Birth Defects caused by incest are really only likely to occur after many generations of incestuous breeding. If you screw your brother, basically, and he gets you preggo, it’s unlikely that your kids will have eleven toes. But if your kids marry each other, and then your grandkids marry each other, your great-grandkids have a much better chance of getting these defects.

But I don’t see a problem with any of these things, although I think people in incestuous relationships should think long and hard before having any children.

The risk of harmful recessive genes turning up is higher among first-gen consanguineous matings. It’s not a sure thing, but then again, what ever is?

That said, you both have to carry the gene, for the trait to manifest. If neither of you has the gene for brittle bones or hemophilia, children won’t have those problems.

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Happy Abortion Day:

You boring little shit. I thought this thread was a thread saying we shouldn’t tolerate queers, trannies and cousin ********. cry Honestly, who gives a fuck if siblings or cousins want to do the dirty deed? Let them. It doesn’t affect anyone.

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iXenu:

Happy Abortion Day:

You boring little shit. I thought this thread was a thread saying we shouldn’t tolerate queers, trannies and cousin ********. cry Honestly, who gives a fuck if siblings or cousins want to do the dirty deed? Let them. It doesn’t affect anyone.

Except their baby who has 12 toes and one ear. ^^

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Marshal67:

It seems to me that a lot of people are being very hypocritical in this thread.

We should be tolerant of all people, but incest is creepy…that makes a ton of sense now doesn’t it.

As far as people saying “how dare you lump homosexuality and transexuality with incest!” I say why not. They are all three things looked down upon by society, they are in that group together without us doing it.

Now, I do believe homosexuality and trans gendered people should be tolerated and alloted their rights. As far as incest, it is a sin and expressly forbidden in the Bible (see Leviticus 18:6). However I cannot find a condemnation of it in the New Testament, so who knows, under the new laws it might not be a sin. As for me, I will stick clear of it till greater people that I uncover the truth.

This does not mean that it should be illegal though. Just because I believe something to be sinful and condemnable does not mean everyone should be held to the same standards I am.

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Shaviv:

Makes sense to me. I think we should be tolerant of all people, but furry lifestylers are creepy. Would I tolerate them, as in, sit on the same park bench? Well, if they didn’t smell bad, yeah, probably. Do their spiritual beliefs make me uncomfortable, if only for having to restrain my laughter? Yes.

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Ianikha

Do those three things really fit together?

I think that homosexuality and transexuality is perferctly fine. I know a lot of people that are homosexuals and a few that are transgender and they’re all wonderful, brilliant people. Much nicer than most of the population as I find they are the least likely to judge other people.

I’m not really sure when it come to incest as it’s one of those things that you just can’t understand until it happens to you really, I certainly wouldn’t understand what falling for my brother or sister would be like… really can’t, makes me feel uncomfortable I guess… I personally don’t think it’s right but I don’t think I’m anyone to judge if it’s wrong or not.

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Milendil:

There is nothing wrong with trans gendered people, homosexuals, or incest, in my opinion. I believe that people can be which ever gender they feel most comfortable with and that they should love whomever they want. I find none of it creepy or wrong. And I just don’t understand why some would consider all of that creepy or wrong.

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MiniSiets:

I see in this thread that there is a profound misunderstanding of how the genetics of incest work. Incest =/= instant retarded babies with 1 ear and 4 eyes. Anyone who claims this is ignorant. Because of the fact that recessive genes can be overridden by dominant genes, many defective genes can be encoded into your DNA without you even suffering any of their effects. This is because if a harmful recessive gene is introduced into your genome, it can be paired with a dominant gene which is not flawed, and therefore overrides the recessive gene while it continues to remain in your body. Thus, you can carry defective genes for many generations without suffering any consequences from them. The problem is that when you have sex with a close relative, they share many of the same genes as yours including those defective genes, so the fetus often has a more likely chance of pairing two of the same harmful recessive genes together, and then you have a problem.

So the question becomes, how much greater are those chances? Well it all depends on the genetics of your family. The bottom line though is that incestuous sex isn’t inherently destructive simply because that’s the way it is. In fact, if your family has had a relatively clean gene pool for several generations, then chances are you could have sex with your sister many times and still never get a handicapped baby. In most first generations of incest, the chances of birth defects are only slightly increased and still not likely to crop up unless you were to continue through multiple generations where the gene pool becomes more and more limited and the recessive genes begin to appear. In a recent scientific study in fact, it has shown that the percentage of birth defects among first cousin couples is only 4-7% as opposed to a “normal” couple’s 2-3%, which isn’t a significant enough margin to be freaking out over.

Of course, all of these statistics are pretty meaningless anyway because in this day and age an incestuous couple can just wear condoms or take birth control pills and problem solved. There really isn’t any significant justification against it. So I say yes to all 3.

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TheKiy:

I’m of the opinion that the state has no business of the sexual escapades of consenting adults (Incest and Homosexuality).

And transsexuals need to have a psychological evaluation before they have life-altering surgery, so I don’t see any problems there.

Anything that does not cause harm should be permitted. I’m going to regret saying that when some more creative person proves me wrong.

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JettaKD

I think that while people are free to believe in standards of right and wrong, they shouldn’t force those standards on other people (unless the other people themselves are doing something harmful >.> wink That prolly made no sense…

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Cancer Causing Gods:

“FIap”:

Gay is okay.
Incest is kinda gross, I’m not gonna lie.

So are interspecies relationships. (I’m looking pointedly at your sig on this one. Human + vampire/werewolf = fucking gross, man. The one passage in Vittorio nearly made me hurl.)

On the actual topic, I stand by my old, honored philosphy: Whatever gets ya off. What other people do or don’t with their genetalia isn’t my business unless they are or plan on doing it to/with me. Which hasn’t ever happened to me, except with my boyfriend.

On transsexuality, I stand by the right of people to be who they are. I know if it were me, I’d be pissed as hell if people tried to tell me, “No, you can’t do this, because everything you’re feeling is wrong.”
Generally speaking, I don’t tell people that what they feel is wrong, because I’m not in a position to properly examine how or what they feel.
(Unless it’s something like, “I feel that the earth is flat.” Then, of course, I’m going to say, “Well, it isn’t.” But that’s a different story.)

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CrystalStarLight77:

I think just inbreeding not incest should be illegal, because if incest couples that just take the neccessary measures to not have a baby then what is wrong with it? What about lesbian or gay incest couples who are incapable of having a baby? As long as its two consenting adults wanting a caring and responsible relationship, while avoiding inbreeding, I don’t see anything wrong with it. If a couple is really in love, why break up or discriminate against that love over something that can be avoided by using birth control?

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MiniSiets:

And by the way, incest is not a choice. You can’t help who you fall in love with, or who you are attracted to. Sure, you can choose to have sex with them or not, but the same goes for homosexuality or anything else.

Shaviv:

The risk of having a child who will eventually grow up to show symptoms of a chronic psychotic disorder is roughly one in one hundred.

I don’t know you, I don’t know your family, but if neither you nor any of yours is one of those one in a hundred children, then you don’t understand that one in a hundred births is a devastatingly high rate of incidence for a crippling disability. The cost in money is very high, as each person requires long-term care that may cover a decade of life – including inpatient treatment, sometimes, and that is ridiculously expensive. The cost in human suffering… I would compare it to what you would see if one out of roughly every hundred people was simply murdered, a bullet to the temple from someone unseen and never apprehended, while crossing the street.

That is not minor.

Again, read above. And by the way, if we’re going to start outlawing on the grounds of genetic risks, then you’re trudging on slippery ground there. Because in order to be fair on this, you would also have to consider outlawing women over 40 being allowed to have sex, or start requiring everyone go through genetic counseling to determine how close their genes are for an exact percentage of birth defect risks and then deny them the right to mate if they’re too dangerous. Statistics show that women over the age of 37 have increased risk of birth defects just as much as cousin couples, and in some cases, worse.

So if your only other argument against incest besides misconstrued understanding of genetics is that it’s “ewwy” or “it’s just wrong,” that’s not going to cut it either. These are the same exact arguments that have been used against homosexuality, and they outright fail.

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Bacodus:

As far as incest goes:

We don’t legally stop two folks who have a seriously high risk (75%+) of having a baby with down syndrome or MD, so, even if the rumors of high chances of birth defects are true, why should we legally stop a brother and sister from taking the same risk? It’s just inconsistent. And there’s little I dislike more than inconsistency. Hell, there are ethical issues in the world of psychology about stopping people with extremely low IQs (mental retardation, hell, I can’t think of the “correct” term I should be using right now) from having sex, shouldn’t the same issues be there for two adults, sound in mind, who happen to be closely related genetically?

If incest stays illegal, should we be able to genetically test folks to make sure they are genetically different “enough” to be given a marriage certificate?

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Fudejinsu:

I don’t have a problem with homosexuality, transexuality, or incest. And about the birth defects and such involved with incest; if they really want to have a child, they could always adopt or visit a sperm bank. They could also use condoms or some other means of birth control to prevent pregnancies. So, there shouldn’t really be any problem with it.

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Bacodus:

Jhawks93:

I’d have to say that homosexuality is fine in my book considering over half my friends are either bi sexual or homosexual. as for trans sexuality i personally don’t care for the thought of it but if you want to change sexes no one should stop you.incest is another story though it causes birth defects and possible mental scarring of the offspring so I view that as wrong (so do most governments so majority rule on that one).

Just because most people believe it is true does not mean it is right. View my arguments above. Do you think the government should test folks to determine their chance of spawning a child with “birth defects” (whatever that means, specifially) before giving them a marriage license? What about the mentally handicapped? Psychology has shown that depression is at least partially related to genetics, should we ban couples with histories of Major Depressive Disorder from getting married?

Disallowing a biological brother and sister from marrying is a slippery slope. The only reason NOT to allow it is the same reason homosexuals can’t get married in most states, because some people feel that they would be “unclean” if their government allowed them to marry.

I’m just glad that transexuals have finally gotten the rights they deserve.

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demonizedchar51:

tho my religons go against homo, bi, and transsexaulity i find nothing against it. i believe that it is their choice and life. most of my friends are not straight but that does not mean i am not their friend. people judge them for being who they r but those people have a limited understanding there for have no right too. i will fight for my friends right to be who they are.i dn’t care wat they are its who they r that matters to me. people force them to feel bad for being that way but i never will. i fight against my my sub-consious judgement of others to keep this syayement true everyday
ask for insest its the same thing its thier choice to do that. u shouldn’t be so evil taward them for it.
as u said were all human no more no less then u. we’re all equal and should be treated as so

but we are intitled to our own opions on the subject. so i feel no anger taward those who say no. tho i may be angry do to principle.

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Madame Maggot:

I believe that if we truly want equality for all people, that we should let people do what they want with their lives.
It’s really none of our business what people do behind closed doors.
How can one preach equality then bash on homo/transsexuals?

Personally, I am Atheist. So religion means nothing to me.

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I hope we can learn something from these interesting replies.
The discussion does not end here, we are just getting started. I hope you are interested to share your opinion on this issue, so post your comment now.

The title of this discussion is:
Should we tolerate homosexuality, transsexuality and adult incest?

Should gays, lesbians, trannies (they are also known as rainbow people) and sibling couples be punished or killed like in Iran, or should they be tolerated and respected as in Sweden?

I wish this post will spawn a healthy and highly interactive discussion.

Finally, I shall end this post with a video talking about “tolerance”. Enjoy!
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